Comments on: Notable web experts who are [x]: Women and non-Caucasians http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/ Working together for standards Wed, 27 Mar 2013 12:19:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Steve http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/comment-page-1/#comment-57827 Steve Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:09:35 +0000 http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/#comment-57827 f you’re going to tell me that these differences do not have a major impact on the relationship between gender and problem-solving methodology, I’d like you to put it on the line and edify everybody. Likewise with culture. Each culture has its own attitudes toward leadership, work, aesthetics, and counterparts to the Platonic ideal. f you’re going to tell me that these differences do not have a major impact on the relationship between gender and problem-solving methodology, I’d like you to put it on the line and edify everybody.

Likewise with culture. Each culture has its own attitudes toward leadership, work, aesthetics, and counterparts to the Platonic ideal.

]]>
By: Börsenlexikon http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/comment-page-1/#comment-57826 Börsenlexikon Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:08:32 +0000 http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/#comment-57826 Regarding the question of why women don’t spend more time show boating their achievements on blogs and conferences, maybe that’s because they have a life outside of web development such as a family to look after? I wonder who is looking after the kids whilst all the bloggers and speakers are promoting themselves? Regarding the question of why women don’t spend more time show boating their achievements on blogs and conferences, maybe that’s because they have a life outside of web development such as a family to look after? I wonder who is looking after the kids whilst all the bloggers and speakers are promoting themselves?

]]>
By: Uwe http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/comment-page-1/#comment-57651 Uwe Sat, 07 Apr 2007 00:10:26 +0000 http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/#comment-57651 I completely agree with this post. As an enrolled tribal member, it seems that the culture around blogs is to use the space to self promote. Getting readership means writing about your accomplishments. Many tribal people believe that their accomplishments are not their own — they are the culmination of their community and ancestors. It is difficult for me to reconcile these two cultures. I completely agree with this post. As an enrolled tribal member, it seems that the culture around blogs is to use the space to self promote. Getting readership means writing about your accomplishments. Many tribal people believe that their accomplishments are not their own — they are the culmination of their community and ancestors. It is difficult for me to reconcile these two cultures.

]]>
By: Katie http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/comment-page-1/#comment-57323 Katie Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:15:27 +0000 http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/#comment-57323 I agree with #1 and #2. They pretty much said it all. Add to it that women often don't want to go for all the glory because we often put family ahead of career -- I know I do. I think twice before going to a conference because I don't want to think about how to get the baby taken care of. Not because we're mushy headed or anything, but there's practical aspects of keeping the house in order to think of. I agree with #1 and #2. They pretty much said it all.

Add to it that women often don’t want to go for all the glory because we often put family ahead of career — I know I do. I think twice before going to a conference because I don’t want to think about how to get the baby taken care of. Not because we’re mushy headed or anything, but there’s practical aspects of keeping the house in order to think of.

]]>
By: Ellen Burgess » Blog Archive » Notable web experts who are [x]: Women and non-Caucasians http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/comment-page-1/#comment-52223 Ellen Burgess » Blog Archive » Notable web experts who are [x]: Women and non-Caucasians Thu, 01 Mar 2007 04:08:40 +0000 http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/#comment-52223 [...] Notable web experts who are [x]: Women and non-Caucasians [...] [...] Notable web experts who are [x]: Women and non-Caucasians [...]

]]>
By: kblessing http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/comment-page-1/#comment-51979 kblessing Wed, 28 Feb 2007 04:56:58 +0000 http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/#comment-51979 @Carlos: I've never heard the version of the story that you tell; the version I was taught in music school was that a (German?) orchestra inadvertently invited a woman to tryouts because her first name was ambiguous; when she showed, she was turned away. She fought and was granted a blind tryout which resulted in her earning a seat in the orchestra. The same tactic was used elsewhere and more women earned seats within various orchestras throughout the world. And I would definitely <em>not</em> say that the quality has been reduced. @Brian: Adding one woman isn't going to solve the gender diversity problem or result in diverse thoughts, but adding a number of women will. Listen more closely to what women are saying about their experiences -- they may not reveal what they've experienced as readily as you might like, but we wouldn't be having this discussion if sexism didn't still happen. @Carlos: I’ve never heard the version of the story that you tell; the version I was taught in music school was that a (German?) orchestra inadvertently invited a woman to tryouts because her first name was ambiguous; when she showed, she was turned away. She fought and was granted a blind tryout which resulted in her earning a seat in the orchestra. The same tactic was used elsewhere and more women earned seats within various orchestras throughout the world. And I would definitely not say that the quality has been reduced.

@Brian: Adding one woman isn’t going to solve the gender diversity problem or result in diverse thoughts, but adding a number of women will. Listen more closely to what women are saying about their experiences — they may not reveal what they’ve experienced as readily as you might like, but we wouldn’t be having this discussion if sexism didn’t still happen.

]]>
By: Kerri Hicks http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/comment-page-1/#comment-51941 Kerri Hicks Wed, 28 Feb 2007 00:24:56 +0000 http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/#comment-51941 Actually, I think it's because of the <a href="http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2006/12/tech_tshirts_ar.html" rel="nofollow">tshirts</a>. Actually, I think it’s because of the tshirts.

]]>
By: Brian http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/comment-page-1/#comment-51934 Brian Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:00:39 +0000 http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/#comment-51934 @ Carlos Bernal "There was a time in San Francisco when musicians were blindly selected to form part of the SF Symphony. Judges were behind curtains and accepted musicians purely on their skill regardless of background. The majority of those musicians turned out to be white males." Interesting. Perhaps when choosing a panel, we should ask people to submit their body of work and resume, and reason why they want to join the group, without providing their name, race or gender. That way, you can select a diverse group based on the details that really matter, their background and thoughts. @ Carlos Bernal

“There was a time in San Francisco when musicians were blindly selected to form part of the SF Symphony. Judges were behind curtains and accepted musicians purely on their skill regardless of background. The majority of those musicians turned out to be white males.”

Interesting. Perhaps when choosing a panel, we should ask people to submit their body of work and resume, and reason why they want to join the group, without providing their name, race or gender. That way, you can select a diverse group based on the details that really matter, their background and thoughts.

]]>
By: Brian http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/comment-page-1/#comment-51932 Brian Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:53:34 +0000 http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/#comment-51932 Do you acknowledge that there are differences between people of the same race and gender? If so, then we certainly need to have a psychological profile of every potential member to make sure that we get a diversity. (that was tongue in cheek) Culture and gender can and often do make a difference in people's perspectives. I grant you that. However, that is not the only aspect that makes a difference in people's perspectives. It is an mistake to assume that a diversity of gender or race automatically results in a diversity of thinking. You are looking at the problem in the wrong way. You're making the issue of diversity about race and gender when it doesn't need to be about those things. Allow women, minorities, and yes...even white men, to step outside of their confined boxes. Otherwise, you are maintaining sexism and racism rather than fighting against it. The whole premise behind ideas like affirmative action and gender quotas is to work against racism and sexism in the job market. There is, no doubt, racism and sexism in the work place. I have observed it. However, I don't observe or hear of any signs of racism or sexism in technology circles. They all seem to welcome anyone that is interested in the technology. An unfortunate truth in the world is that there happens to be an excess of white men involved in technology at this point in time. That is because of multiple factors... starting with a lack of equal opportunity in the workplace, and also social influences. (A father raising a daughter to be car mechanic is a rare thing). This lack of equal opportunity in the job market, however, does not equate to a lack of equal opportunity in a technology group. I just don't see it. Do you acknowledge that there are differences between people of the same race and gender? If so, then we certainly need to have a psychological profile of every potential member to make sure that we get a diversity.

(that was tongue in cheek)

Culture and gender can and often do make a difference in people’s perspectives. I grant you that. However, that is not the only aspect that makes a difference in people’s perspectives. It is an mistake to assume that a diversity of gender or race automatically results in a diversity of thinking. You are looking at the problem in the wrong way. You’re making the issue of diversity about race and gender when it doesn’t need to be about those things. Allow women, minorities, and yes…even white men, to step outside of their confined boxes. Otherwise, you are maintaining sexism and racism rather than fighting against it.

The whole premise behind ideas like affirmative action and gender quotas is to work against racism and sexism in the job market. There is, no doubt, racism and sexism in the work place. I have observed it. However, I don’t observe or hear of any signs of racism or sexism in technology circles. They all seem to welcome anyone that is interested in the technology.

An unfortunate truth in the world is that there happens to be an excess of white men involved in technology at this point in time. That is because of multiple factors… starting with a lack of equal opportunity in the workplace, and also social influences. (A father raising a daughter to be car mechanic is a rare thing). This lack of equal opportunity in the job market, however, does not equate to a lack of equal opportunity in a technology group. I just don’t see it.

]]>
By: ray hunter http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/comment-page-1/#comment-51727 ray hunter Tue, 27 Feb 2007 06:08:08 +0000 http://www.webstandards.org/2007/02/25/notable-web-experts-who-are-x-women-and-non-caucasians/#comment-51727 Thanks Ben, for revisiting an issue that I brought up @ SXSW in 2000. I had ridden the "wave", as it were, from 1995 to that apex, now known as the end of Web 1.0 It was consistently clear to me at that time, that there was little concern for inclusion, as is most often the case, where the possibility of economic advantage is concerned. I could always count the number of African American men, like myself, on one hand, irregardless of the conference: Java One, MacWorld, Seybold, Builder.Com, Flash Forward, and yes, SXSW. After 2001, I essentially decided I would be better off "stealth" and avoid what I saw as the track of self-promotion / book publishing / blogging, et all. I simply tired of pretending that there was any social benefit and/or satisfaction of being surrounded by folks who subconsciously questioned my presence at these gatherings. I eventually found that my early adopter enthusiasm and avid interest in new communication forms and technology were not enough to make me forget that my comfort level was diminishing. Call it "fly in the buttermilk" syndrome. It certainly wasn't the fault of the others in attendance. I blame it more on a societal fatigue, which by the way, is also present outside of the technological context. Perhaps someday, I'll begin to participate again, when I can be assured that the reflections that I see around a table are more varied in shade and gender. Thanks Ben, for revisiting an issue that I brought up @ SXSW in 2000. I had ridden the “wave”, as it were, from 1995 to that apex, now known as the end of Web 1.0 It was consistently clear to me at that time, that there was little concern for inclusion, as is most often the case, where the possibility of economic advantage is concerned. I could always count the number of African American men, like myself, on one hand, irregardless of the conference: Java One, MacWorld, Seybold, Builder.Com, Flash Forward, and yes, SXSW. After 2001, I essentially decided I would be better off “stealth” and avoid what I saw as the track of self-promotion / book publishing / blogging, et all. I simply tired of pretending that there was any social benefit and/or satisfaction of being surrounded by folks who subconsciously questioned my presence at these gatherings. I eventually found that my early adopter enthusiasm and avid interest in new communication forms and technology were not enough to make me forget that my comfort level was diminishing. Call it “fly in the buttermilk” syndrome. It certainly wasn’t the fault of the others in attendance. I blame it more on a societal fatigue, which by the way, is also present outside of the technological context. Perhaps someday, I’ll begin to participate again, when I can be assured that the reflections that I see around a table are more varied in shade and gender.

]]>